Early questions

Okay, I've been reading and still have some unanswered items, so I'll pose as a "skeptic" (which I'm not) and dive in:
1.) No one talking about braking hard when in a turn, so how's that working for you?
2.) You got hacked and the tire comparison links are gone; can't someone put the calculator and chart back up?
3.) I get the concept of getting used to the feel of understeer; just like riding a different bike, but I generally scrape off
my floorboards a lot, and most of you in the pics appear to be the gentle, pudgy (sorry but you are), easyriding types. If I
put a DS on my Heritage rear (I may be the first to do it, it seems) I'm wondering how this compares to say, my Pirelli Night
Dragon - which is excellent in corners; MUCH better than the stock Dumflop 404. 2up performance is my most important question.
4.) Trying to get a more MT profile, it behooves me that some foreign tires may be rounder. I wouldn't dream of using the
spare donuts. Maybe old vintage tire copies?
5.) Would not taller be better, having softer sidewalls for flexing and more height to lessen the lift/tilt combination in corners?

Okay, I resemble the pudgy remark but rest assured that my boards and pipes are well ground. I just came back from NC and the dragon riding 2 up with my adrenilin junky 14 yr old son tearing up the twisties. Twin1300 has some video of our ride he will post in a couple days.

Generally you will get "used" to the "different" feel of the bike after just a few rides. you wont even think about the countersteering involved. It is after all about the ride and not the mechanics of riding. 2 up hard riding is not a problem at all for the darkside as some here that were at the darkside rally we just held can attest to after seeing me and my son riding.

I am running a Mich Hydro edge 205-70-15 .... yes taller is better.

See you out there
Smokey

quadancer wrote:1.) No one talking about braking hard when in a turn, so how's that working for you?

Works better than a MT braking hard in a turn. What kind of question is that, braking hard anytime chances that you'll break the tire loose. What moron brakes hard in a turn unless A) He has a death wish or B) He is already in too deep and can't help doinig so. Yeah, it works better in a turn, in the rain, on the interstate and on the surface streets. It works better, cheaper and lasts longer than most all MT's out there.

quadancer wrote:3.) I get the concept of getting used to the feel of understeer; just like riding a different bike, but I generally scrape off my floorboards a lot, and most of you in the pics appear to be the gentle, pudgy (sorry but you are), easyriding types.

Really? Gentle AND pudgy. Wow, you really throw around the generalizations. Well, I may resemble one of those but I can assure you that I have scraped most half of my pegs off on my "Gentle Little" VLX.

Glad you stopped by and hope we can help you.

Eric

Nobody should brake hard leaned over in a turn.
It makes the bike stand up and most likely you will ride off into the ditch.

Well I resemble the in to deep remark (proubably the moron too if the truth be told),you can brake hard enough in a curve to break the rear ct and the front mc tire loose at once but when you hit a blind curve sloped the wrong way at 80 or more what would you expect.All I can say is when the man upstairs took over it stood back up and made the curve,im thinking the ct was a bunch of help also.

Heheh, you guys just focused on 2 things... :cyclops:
Eventually, all of us morons will have some fool run a redlight or jump off the sidewalk and panic us into
stopping fast - whereupon we will absentmindedly stab the back brake harder than we should, lacking any
room to stop in. I know about leaning being better in curves and using front brakes at speed. Having slid
sideways recently (with a Dumflop on the back) as a car changed lanes without signaling, I bought the
Night Dragon for the grip, but the CT's interest me more, if they (as claimed) are grippier.
Funny, it makes no sense in the equation: the CT should be slicker (harder) than the MT's, being able to
last for so many miles. Who is lying to us? The CT or the MT manufacturers?
I can see how being 2up would be better than solo, the extra weight pushing the tire into the pavement
that much harder, increasing the contact patch. God, I love logic!
Sorry about the 'pudge comment - but I saw those pics of you guys on the Dragon...and I'm a powerlifter.
Since I offended ya, I'll give something back: I tell everyone this (my AB) is my 'powerghut'!

quadancer wrote:Heheh, you guys just focused on 2 things... :cyclops:
Funny, it makes no sense in the equation: the CT should be slicker (harder) than the MT's, being able to
last for so many miles. Who is lying to us? The CT or the MT manufacturers?

Who told you a CT was slicker (harder) than a MT? Somewhere on this site is a thread that shows a member showing just the opposite. I'll have to look it up now and bookmark it for later.



man I hope I didn't get that wrong?

edit: I found the durometer thread -> Durometer test <- durometer thread

quadancer wrote:Heheh, you guys just focused on 2 things... :cyclops:
Eventually, all of us morons will have some fool run a redlight or jump off the sidewalk and panic us into
stopping fast - whereupon we will absentmindedly stab the back brake harder than we should, lacking any
room to stop in. I know about leaning being better in curves and using front brakes at speed. Having slid
sideways recently (with a Dumflop on the back) as a car changed lanes without signaling, I bought the
Night Dragon for the grip, but the CT's interest me more, if they (as claimed) are grippier.
Funny, it makes no sense in the equation: the CT should be slicker (harder) than the MT's, being able to
last for so many miles. Who is lying to us? The CT or the MT manufacturers?
I can see how being 2up would be better than solo, the extra weight pushing the tire into the pavement
that much harder, increasing the contact patch. God, I love logic!
Sorry about the 'pudge comment - but I saw those pics of you guys on the Dragon...and I'm a powerlifter.
Since I offended ya, I'll give something back: I tell everyone this (my AB) is my 'powerghut'!

How about this as proof. I am a racer on 35 years and it's always been about traction and tires. We (me and my son) and prep kart tires for softness and grip. So here's a link to the softness of motorcycle tires to the softness of car tire. It's NOT a myth...car tires are always softer than motorcycle tires.

Click this link:
https://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/general-discussion-f6/durometer-test-on-205-and-dunniepics-added-t557.htm?highlight=durometer

The reason why the softer car tire last longer is the soft rubber which is grip and wide contact patch holds the road. Now with that said....a tire that slips on the pavement is friction and friction is wear! Because of the small contact patch of the MT (motorycle tire), if the rubber was soft it would over heat and get too gummy and slip on you. So they make it harder to not get as hot and gummy, but because the contact patch is so small that they sacrifice gummy for less grip and it wears quicker. Feel you motorcycle tire next time you ride hard. It gets hot! But NOT the car tire, the contact patch is so large the it disperses the heat over a larger area and doesn't slip and slide so NO friction, NO wear!

Motorcycle community has lied to us about why they wear out so quickly on us. It's not because they are softer. It's how you make money!!! hehehehe We buy the lie over and over again every time we replace a motorcycle tire.

I hope this makes sense, it does to me...LOL Thanks for your question.


.......................bobby

Amen !!!

Oh goz, I love these posts. There's a chance I've to quit riding, but I will not give up this site.
Scrolling this site always makes you feel good, even on a rainy day
(We had 2 of them this year)

Well Quadancer, keep us posted how it feels after some time.
By the way, forget your dumbbells. No need to train that hard. Darksiders don't have to pick up
their bike as much as others

Finally some sense in the matter!
I've been looking around at 155 - 165 width tires, and tried the search boxes at various tire sites using every aspect ratio from 55 to 75 for a 16" tire and there doesn't seem to be one in existence. Might be a good thing I started looking early - maybe I'll find one before Christmas!

Quadancer,
A lot of fooling around, but be patient, I'm sure someone will chime in who will be
able to help you out. Reading your last post it looks that you can't find the right tire,
which seems a bit odd to me. Again, I hope someone will help you out soon.
Did you check the tire comparisation sites?
Have a great riding Sunday,
Robert.

Got the tire comparison chart which gives all close combinations. But to go LOOKING for these tires...the ones next to my size don't seem to exist, and you have to painfully put in one size at a time on each site - VERY time consuming and laborious.
That's why I'm gonna get me some clay and do the measurements to see what actually WILL fit. You guys with over 200mm tires have it easy; there is a plethora of tires for you.

I see what you mean, but still I think others will help you out soon, especially the guys
from the X 1300 section, who didn't do the foot's mod.
Regards, Robert.

Not familiar with "foots" mod. -?

Toot's mod is for the X 1300 riders who change their wheels with those from an 1800-C.
This give the opportunity touse wider tires.
If you're interested even though you're a HD rider, this link explains all;

http://forums.midatlanticxriders.com/index.php?topic=326.msg1988#msg1988

Have a great week you all,
Robert.

Granted my bike isn't the biggest here, I was the 1st vlx rider to go dark here,, I am 5'9", 160lbs, and have a 33"-34" waist, far from pudgy

mark

Otis56 wrote:Granted my bike isn't the biggest here, I was the 1st vlx rider to go dark here,, I am 5'9", 160lbs, and have a 33"-34" waist, far from pudgy

mark

Hey Mark, didn't know we're on a dating site Mine's not the biggest either, but no worries,
I've found myself a great wife

Regards, Robert, the only double darksider !

Well, just for the sake of not keeping you all in suspense, I have the biggest.

...Oooh wait... you guys were talking about tires huh?...

Nevermind.

Otis56 wrote: I am 5'9", 160lbs, and have a 33"-34" waist, far from pudgy

mark

yea me too.....

Ok, I've got more stuff.
First another consideration: if there is an understeer from the width of the back CT, then why not lessen it with a wider front MT? That way, the centerline of the bike is still almost straight in a curve. Simple enuff.

Okay, did the clay play, and despite it trying to fall off at times, I got a rough measure. Then discovered that the fender is closer than the belt! So, I have 14mm clear of my 150mm Night Dragon. 14x2=28 total, add the 150 and get 178 to rub fenders. 175 would be too tight, so 165 is 178 minus 165 = 13mm/2=6.5mm, or right at 1/4". Perfect.
The ol' lady and I got on the bike with clay on top of the tire and bounced as hard as we could. Never touched 1.5" of clay, so the sky's the limit on my second number.
Playing safe, I figured around 25mm more height would be enough difference to raise the bike and lessen the steering offset, so the final hunt is for a 165/75/16, 165x75%+165=124mm. Stock was 107mm.
Looks like there is hope to be the first one Darksiding on a Heritage! Man, I love adventure!
Math and me are dangerous: someone backcheck me, ok?

quadancer wrote:Ok, I've got more stuff.
First another consideration: if there is an understeer from the width of the back CT, then why not lessen it with a wider front MT? That way, the centerline of the bike is still almost straight in a curve. Simple enuff.

I have never felt an under steer with the car tire.....ever! It does require slightly more countersteer to turn, but that's totally two separate things. I rode all over the Smokey mountains and it went every where I wanted it to go! I think we were passed by two people the whole week we were gone and it was two crotchrockets.


..........................bobby

The reason you are having to use a little more countersteer is because the bike is understeering - due to the change in forward directional center.
This is also why the bikes with a beach ball on the back and a bicycle tire on the front can't corner worth a durn: the rear of the bike is going off-center when leaning.
I can see how a little understeer would simply be gotten immediately used to, but it would seem to me that if you get rid of most all of it with a larger front tire, then your cornering could be more aggressive and controlled.

BAD news: I've searched MANY tire sites for a 165 - by ANY ratio x 16" and can't find one. It would appear that the only Darkside I'll be able to run will be the patch on my jacket - but I'll still support the idea.

[quote="CaribCruiser"]

Otis56 wrote:Granted my bike isn't the biggest here, I was the 1st vlx rider to go dark here,, I am 5'9", 160lbs, and have a 33"-34" waist, far from pudgy

mark

no no no ,, dude thought we were all short and stocky/pudgy

mark

Com'on fellows, there should be somebody who kmows where Quad can buy his tire !
Shipping from here will be quite expensive and not be the solution
By the way Quad, no tire no patch

What? You don't want cheerleaders???
I see a small ray of hope - Nankang has a 165/50R16. That lowers my tire height from 108mm to 82.5 - I'd be in fourth gear when I'm in fifth! Were I a barhopper, that would be okay, but I'm a cruiser. I'll keep looking.