Responce from Cruiser Magazine

Afew days back I e-mailed Motorcycle cruiser Magazine about doing a comparison on the c/t vs m/t on the bikes. I said our numbers are growing, and thought this would be a good article. If anyone here would like to send in your .02 worth please do so, plus he has made an offer to any Darksider to see what his own experience would be. Here is their responce :

Corey,

I have addressed the issue of using cars tires on motorcycles in a previous issue but you're right, I think it's time to revisit the issue, especially since I don't think it's a particularly good idea, and there seems to be a lot of misinformation out there.

Due to liability issues we won't be doing a comparison test, currently there's not a single tire or mainstream motorcycle manufacturer in the world that thinks using a car tire on a motorcycle is a good idea so if we knowingly installed a non-approved tire on a test bike, and then wadded the thing up the legal repercussions would be a nightmare.

However I will make you this offer, if one of your cohorts wants to loan me a bike equipped with a car tire and is willing to absolve me of all legal responsibility should I wad the thing up, then I'll be happy to book some track time and do a comparison test.

Lastly, I have invited several tire engineers to comment on the practice and I'll make the same offer to you, although as I hope you can appreciate I won't have a whole lot of room, right now I'm thinking maybe a 1,000 words total, so I can only give you a few sentences as most to make your case.

Thanks for taking the time to write,

Take care,
Mark Zimmerman
Technical Editor - Motorcycle Cruiser Magazine

Where do they live would be good info? I can't offer my bike if they don't live anywhere near me!


...........................bobby

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One thing that worries me about getting this darkside idea out in the mainstream of the general public like lawyers, law makers or insurance co. is...Like anything else in the world if a group doen't agree with what a few are doing they feel they need to do something about it and make laws, rules or stipulation's to keep the few from doing what they like. For instance seatbelts, I know they can save my life in a crash but do I really need "Big Brother" telling me I have to? Same goes for d/s if too many "non motorcycle" riders hear about this will "Big Brother" tell us we can't?

Kinda off subject but do ya'll get what I'm saying?

marang wrote:One thing that worries me about getting this darkside idea out in the mainstream of the general public like lawyers, law makers or insurance co. is...Like anything else in the world if a group doen't agree with what a few are doing they feel they need to do something about it and make laws, rules or stipulation's to keep the few from doing what they like. For instance seatbelts, I know they can save my life in a crash but do I really need "Big Brother" telling me I have to? Same goes for d/s if too many "non motorcycle" riders hear about this will "Big Brother" tell us we can't?

Kinda off subject but do ya'll get what I'm saying?

I see what you are saying, but they have already as he said done an article on it before, and the idea of using a car tire has been out there for quite sometime. If they haven't seen it or heard of it yet, they will whether they do another article or not. I would rather try and use this to get some possitive results, if they do and honest evaluation, and try to once and for all have something in print like that to show some of the idiots, who I will not name but some of you know, who say things like "car tires are cars1" over and over and over and over... but whatever the outcome, won't change my mind on using the car tire.

Wait, you mean if he totals your bike he's not responsible? BS.

Other than that he could use mine...got spare tins.

My thoughts are that it would do more harm than good, he has already told you that he is against it and the results from any test are directly affected by the input.I don't see any way it would be a fair test.We do pretty good flying under the radar (if you don't stir it it doesn't stink)I think if people are interested they will find out on their own.Now I am not questioned by my insurance company about it.I would hate to loose my CT because of some clause in an insurance policy or some law that lobiest get passed.Remember the tire companys make big bucks on the MC tires so they will air against it even if they know we are right.And I beleive they would try to make it illegal if they were pushed. RIDE SAFE Larry S.

I agree with the idea that we should "stay under the radar" especially in these times of expanding government. Law makers love to make laws to justify themselves, and right now we enjoy a relatively free environment to do want we want. Remember that Cruiser magazine undoubtedly receives major business from the tire manufacturers who would not be pleased if a hoard of our brethren were turned on to the darkside. Mr. Zimmerman has already stated that he doesn't think it's a good idea and we all know that there are those that are blinded by there pre-conceived notions that (CTAFC) and then there are the ones that are open minded enough to entertain the idea and give it some intelligent consideration. Which one is Mr. Zimmerman? Who knows?
Do we want to risk an ill informed denunciation out in public by a major motorcycle magazine further polarizing opinion? I can understand that he might give it a fair shake in private, but the liability issues of his magazine doing anything other than saying it's not recommended will determine his official stance.

Siggy

I think you sould leave this subject out of the public's eye. Let us pass the word ourselves, we don't need the nay sayers to get involed by puting it in writting for all to see. We still have to get a yearly safety inspection in NC, we don't need it deemed unsafe so MC tire companys can make there money.


mike

Ok guys, I feel like I stuck my neck in a guillotine now! I e-mailed him back and first of all, even though they did an article before about running on car tires, he didn't know whether they would do another one. I appologize if I offended anyone over this, but sooner or later this test will be done, and with the number of people coming over to the Darkside, just how long to you think it will stay under the radar? People talk about it, people see it, It's talked about on the VTXOA and here we have a whole website dedicated to it. In the words of Forest Gump, " That's all I got to say about that."

this is a no brainer. Daniel Meyer needs to write the 1000 word article. What do you say Daniel?

For comparison, you need like bikes. One with CTs and one with MTs. My vote is to fly him into Texarkana and try to keep up with Kermit on her 1300 with his 1300 with MTs. Then swap bikes and have him follow her again. Now THAT would be an article!

Steve-O wrote:this is a no brainer. Daniel Meyer needs to write the 1000 word article. What do you say Daniel?

For comparison, you need like bikes. One with CTs and one with MTs. My vote is to fly him into Texarkana and try to keep up with Kermit on her 1300 with his 1300 with MTs. Then swap bikes and have him follow her again. Now THAT would be an article!

I would like to see him try to keep up with Kermit on a mt..... Shoot I'd even buy the magazine the article was written in.

Jerry

If that dude even thinks about hanging with Kermit......... his ass is dead. That Lady can ride. She was gassing the hell out of hers and I was hard on the binders on mine. No excuses, she out rode me ...... and there is nothing chicken shit about my riding.

See you out there
Smokey

No guillatine here just an honest opinion. RIDE SAFE Larry

Larry,
Did I read right...you e-mailed Mr. Zimmerman back to re-cant??? I hope I read that wrong. For some time now, I've read how the Darkside was so great, (don't get me wrong, it is, I double-darkside) and how folks get all bristled when someone badmouths the "car-tire' idea an how insane and "crash and burn" it is. Then a national magazine offers to at least "take another look" at the idea and you all sound like all the "naysayers" do. Yes, he is asking for a bike to ride, with no repucussions if he crashes it, but no test person in his or her right mind is going to be foolish on someone elses bike. I'm just saying,....maybe this would be the oportunity to get some "good ragtime' instead of all the trash we always hear. Just maybe he would print something legimate that might just help. The gauntlet has been thrown down and everyone seems to be ducking for cover. Shame, shame. JMHO Semper-fi

I doubt he's around here, but I mighta been game to let him try... insurance will pay for the makeover then!

I kinda like the idea of a co-author on the article..him and Daniel Meyer. His response about him not thinking it was even a good idea would most likely taint his review...regardless of how well it went. That's human nature...folks don't like being proved wrong.

marine mp :not sure if you meant to talk to me or not but you had my name so here goes.I haven't E MAILED anyone but my opinion differs mainly because to me the car tire is a personal choice and I really could care less how any magazine article portrais it. I am not trying to convince anyone else to do it only give my opinion based on my experience when people ask for it.Also people on this site don't seem to get jacked out of shape when someone bashes a CT only when it turns into a personal attack as they should. I don't think you can win against a stacked deck .but I think you could cause everyone to loose their right to choose what tire they want to run. (kinda like waving a red flag in front of a bull) I don't see the point in running that risk,I know I don't want to loose mine.Do you really need the magizine to tell you the car tire is better RIDE SAFE Larry S.

No, I was not telling him to never write the article. My point to him was unless they were actually going to set up a bike meaning a cruiser with a car tire and actually get out on the roads for hundreds or thousands of miles to test it then don't bother. I told him that you can't take it out for a couple hours on a track and really know how the tire feels. In past Cruiser mags they did the comparison tests between different bikes where they hit the road across country to get a feel for the bikes and how they rode, I said in my opinion he would have to do the same with this. There is absolutely no way that he can give an honest opinion unless they would do this. He said they said basically it would not work on a sport bike, but he said he could see where on a cruiser it may have its advantages. EXACTLY! My point to him was just what I said, unless you are actually going to get out there and really ride that bike like what everyone else does and get a true feel for it, which on a track or in a couple hours you can't, then don't bother. I am not trying to force an opinion on anyone either, ride what tire you like, c/t or m/t I don't care, but I do know the c/t works and works better than the m/t. As I said in an earlier reply, I understand what you are saying about keeping it under the radar or out of the public eye, but with people crossing over as they are, that will be short lived, it will never stay under the radar forever. The guy rides himself, so for as many of us that have gone Darkside and love it, good chance if he really road tests it he would too, and a words in Cruiser saying how it rides, grips and a smoother ride, well, I think that would be good. But since the mag won't set up their own bike to do the test, at this point it doesn't sound like it will happen.

He can come to my house, ride on the the crookedest, bumpiest sections of road in WY and do it back to back on the same bike with 10 minutes between rides. I have two wheels with a very good MT on one (Continental milestones, my favorite) and a grabber with 13,000 miels on the other one.

If he wrecks it, big deal I repaint my bike every year anyway.

George

Larry,
I stand corrected, as it was not you who e-mailed Mr. Zimmerman back. I apologize. I can see both points of view, but....and yes, I agree that it doesn't matter what any magazine says about car tires and how well or not that they perform. However, I would like to see one of the national bike magazines to do a fair and un-biased review of the car-tire scene, and have his or her opinions backed up by statistics that show the safety factors involved when using a c/t versus a m/t. Especially a run-flat c/t. I've yet to hear of a c/t delamming or just plain exploding like so many of the m/t tires do. Anyways, keep on putting miles on the car tires and keeping the "green stamps" in your wallet while the m/t buyers spend theirs!!!!!! JMHO Semper-fi

Marine mp No appology needed, we were and are good just a discussion. Didn't mean to convey anything different.RIDE SAFE Larry S.

Mythbusters time!

#1 On Mythbusters ,thats one I beleive would work.

Yeah, except mythbusters is made for entertainment and not actual truth. I used to like the show, but got tired of factually incorrect and just plain bad testing being done when more accurate testing would have worked and been easier. They always go with the most entertaining way to test something and the results are quite often just plain wrong. I'd have no confidence in them testing this and coming to any real conclusion. I'm sure they would make it look fun though

A true control test would be to put a brave/stupid test rider on a bike, run it on the skidpad and see how fast/ how many g's it would pull before skidding out, then swap tires and repeat the same test. The problem is to test the limits of something you have to push past them limits to find out where they are. When you do exceeed the limits on a bike things get bent, broke and scratched. This includes bones. IMHO the fair test for street riding is that on this website alone we have somewhere around half a million miles with no issues at all.

So in my mind, that says that for street ridind (and Roy's LSR stuff) this myth is officially busted

George