spoked rims and tire sizes

I have a 2002 honda shadow 600cc with a spoked rear rim. The tire on there now is the stock dunlop.
I don't have an owner's manual.

Does anybody know:
1. Is my rear tire get-up tubeless (are the spoke holes factory sealed)? (Greyboyfan had a post that thoroughly confused me about this - https://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/general-discussion-f6/what-about-a-spoked-wheel-t1254.htm?highlight=spoke )
Also, I won't be sealing any rims myself... the process seams like it would be expensive to have a shop do, that is, if they even agreed to do it. Any ideas of how much this may cost?
2. If its not tubeless already (and assuming I choose not to seal the rim), do I need to replace the tube when I have a car tire put on, or can I use the same one? Do tubes come in different sizes for different size tires? (see below sizing conundrum). Would a shop be willing to mount a tire with a tube? I would think so, since if they were putting a MT on it they would need a tube, so why would a CT be different, right? What do you think?
3. The sizing sticky recommends 195/60/r15 (which would be a section height of 117mm); the stock size is 170/80/15 (section height = 136). I would think we would want to keep the same section height, or else, in this case, the bike would ride about 2cm lower to the ground on the back side.
Is this height difference noticeable?
If we kept the same section height on a wider than stock tire (e.g. 195/70/15 which has a section height of 136.5mm, a likely/hopefully negligible half millimeter increase from the stock 170/80 section height), is there then a risk of the corners of the tire rubbing against the fender or anything else?
What CT sizes have actually been used to replace the 170/80/15 stock motorcycle tire (specifically on the honda shadow, more specifically on the honda shadow 600)? Which sizes have been a success?
4. In mounting and balancing a tire to a rim, how much wiggle room is there in the diameter of the tire? e.g. the stock width is 170mm, can a 195mm width tire be easily mounted with out modification? how about a 165mm width tire (I have seen both these sizes recommended, so I am sure the short answer is "yes".... I am looking more for an explanation/insight/rational type response.)
5. Regarding aquisition... the following sizes are not available from Discount Tire Direct: 170/80, 185/70, 165/75, 165/80... can anybody recommend other vendors? Is the internet the best place to buy a single tire?


Thanks folks. Looking to joining the dark side "soon."

Anybody know CT on motorcycle friendly motorcycle shops in the Worcester, MA area?

About all I can tell you off the top of my head is I bet your rim is not sealed and lots of people with spoke rims run tubes in the tires...

hopefully someone more experienced than myself can chime in with more details...

Welcome!

I think Otis56 has the same bike and he just did this a couple thousand miles again. Search for his posts or pm him. He'd be happy to help.

Yep Otis56 will have all the answers. He is the only other VLX 600 rider thats gone darkside.

Jerry

I'll do my best to answer your questions ok.

1.) yes your tire is tubeless, due to spokes you'll need to run a tube. (reg m/t tube), on sealing the
the rims see the post on here by wayne. I printed them out so that one day I may seal mine. I
doubt that it's beyond your skill, you might get an indipendent bike shop to seal them, I have no
idea of potential cost.
2.) Ideally you change out your tube when you put a new tire on, that won't be an issue for an
independent shop. There are different tube sizes, the normal mc tire tube will work.
3.) On the tire size, I am running a federal ss657, it is a VW tire. It is a 160/80/15, there have been
no rubbing issues on this size, and as I have been told and found from experience that this size
car tire performs more like a m/c tire. I haven't measured the 195/60/15 or 195/65/15 but from
looking only feel that we (vlx riders) can possibly go up as wide as the 195, I know that Goodyear
Assurance triple tread comes in the 195/60/15 and the 195/65/15 sizes. Yes we will be a little
lower with a ---/60/-- or a ---/65/-- and I haven't given this much thought at this time, mainly
for the reason I only have 2k miles on the 165/80/15. Again for the different sizes I can only tell
you that for sure the 165/80/15 works, and it appears by sight that we could go as wide as the
195. I do have a suspisson(sp?) that the 185 may be the best bet. Time and trials will tell on that.
4.) Mounting and balancing, I had an independent shop do mine, I called them today, I wasn't sure
how high of pressure they went to get it to seat, I know now that they blew it up to 70lbs-80lbs
and let it back down around 6 times before the tire seated. (read the tire got warmer and seated
I think). The 165 is about 2mm thinner than the stock 170/80/15, and is some bit lighter.
5.) Aquisition, I called around, Sears would order one (kuhmo)(sp?) we know works too. I found my
Federal tire at an independent tire dealer, I think he had four and wanted to unload more on me
but was disbelieving this was going on my bike, the Federal was 72.00 or 74.00 with tax about
$80.00.

I hope I did justice to your questions. So far I think I'm the only one that has done more than just ask about doing this on a vlx, there are some 750's out there., I had to do no modding for the 165/80/15 to fit and don't think any would be necessary for even the 195. I'm pretty sure the 205 is beyond the bounds for the vlx.
Good luck, let us know how it goes for you.

mark f



the smaller darksider

Thanks everyone. I will share the verdict hopefully in the next couple of weeks.

alright.... hopefully by the end of the week Bertha will be riding with a nice general altimax HP 185/65/r15 on her rear! The dominos are aligned and waiting.

well let us know, or at least let me know, the 185 or the 195 will be my next c/t
looking forward to hearing back from you.
mark f

having trouble finding a shop willing to do it for me...

Alright, I have successfully removed my rear wheel, and am thinking I'll utilize the auto skills center on base - something like 4 bucks an hour to use the space and tools (advice is free)... I've watched a few you tube clips on changing motorcycle tires, my only question now is whether I should seal my rim (once I figure out how to get the current tire off) or use a tube. I read in my yamaha's service manual the following:
"do not use a tubeless tire on a wheel designed only for tube tires to avoid tire failure and personal injury from sudden deflation."
It goes on to compare wheels with appropriate tires in this way:
"tube wheel = tube tire only
tubeless wheel = tube or tubeless tire"

What gives? Did the writer mean to say you have to "use a tube and tire together in a tube wheel." I mean obviously if you don't use a tube, you wont be able to hold air... but that is not what the writer actually wrote.
What is [is there a] the theoretical dangerous outcome from using a tube with a tubeless tire on a tube wheel?

I think this will be what I base my ultimate decision on whether or not I seal my wheel (since all car tires are tubeless), I mean, I'd just assume use the tube, because 1. it would be easier, and 2. because I would trust it to hold air better!

Alright, thanks for your responses.

My friend just barely seated his CT himself with a tube. You don't have to seal the rim. Use a tube if you don't want to seal it.

He drives a Yamaha V-Star Classic 650.

The rims are very easy to seal. You can go to 1300 tech and then go down untill you find sealing rims, and read it.
Tubeless is the only way to go, I have been runing tubless for over 20,000 miles now, I lost track for sure, closer to 30,000 miles. and I have never had a problem, front or rear.

Seal it. I just did mine and it is not hard. Be sure to get the 3M 5200 fast cure. It has red on the package. The 5200 fast cure cures in 24 hours where the regular 5200 takes 7 days.

https://mcdarksiders.forumotion.com/vtx-1300-tech-f11/sealing-rims-t68.htm?highlight=sealing+rim

this is the link you refered to .....

question: Can i get away with buying the 20 dollar 3 ounce tube, or should I get the 30 dollar 10 ouce tube?

I'll be driving an hour to get to a shop that sells it (of course thinking about all the money I'll save by not having to get tube every time I change my tire.... oh wait, i forgot it'll take a few years before I'll need to change the car tire ;( .....

also to clarify - I take the rubber that is covering the spokes off and then put it back after the adhesive cures?

should i stick with soap water as a lubricant or is a retail tire lubricant compatible with the cured adhesive?

also - I'll get a valve.... I'm confused about the tape application. do I just tape the opening of the valve to prevent accidental clogging when I seal around the valve.... do I seal around the valve, or are these valve devices self-sealing ?

Well, i am just full of updates, aren't I?

So I was able to have a local boat shop order me the 5200 24 hr cure product. I sealed my rim with this after cleaning the rim up with a wire brush and spraying some anti rust primer on a couple spots that had begun to rust.

I attempted to clean the rim (after priming) with brake cleaner before I was to apply the 5200... as I expected, the primer just blew off where I first sprayed, so I sprayed some on a cloth and lightly and quickly wiped the area where I was going to put the 5200.

I got a tire valve - unfortunately the valve hole in the tubed rim that I had was to small-designed for a tube valve-, so I had to open up the size of the hole to get the valve to fit properly - the guy at the hobby shop on base came up with this idea - he gave me a small tapered metal, essentially hand operated drill bit-I forget what it was actually called-that I used to bore out the hole with relative ease.

We got the beads to set after 3 tries and about 80-90 lbs (it was off the charts).

Unfortunately, we were unable to balance the tire as my rim didn't fit on the automatic balance machine or the old hand one, so I will have to balance it somehow- I'll either set up a brace on which to spin the wheel and move the weights around (like on you-tube), or I'll simply take it to my bike mechanic (the one that didn't want to change the tire in the first place - he's a cool cat, really, just didn't want anything to do with this dark side heresy).

Alright, I'll figure out the balance thing-and then the getting it back on my bike correctly thing -and then get some pictures and a review up.

Happy riding. Its officially Spring

That's the force with which I tightened the rear axle bolt on my new dark side ride. That's right! Finally got it done. I took a very cautious 6.2mi ride to test her out, and will get a picture or two up soon.

Thanks for all your help everyone.

balancing = dynabeads

Jerry

Yep, Dynabeads are the way to go. Looks way better and it works.

Dynabeads

Here are some pictures of my new dark side ride. I balanced her with some self-adhesive balance weights that the guy who sold me the tire gave to me. I double secured the weights with some duct tape (per some guy on you-tube).
I've ridden 50 miles so far, and am becoming more confident - the swing-arm has not yet ripped apart the sidewall sending me to my death (as one guy who refused to put the tire on for me had postulated... although I am taking out out some extra life insurance unrelated to the CT decision!).
Thanks for all your support.

Looks good! Great job on it!!! Now just order some dynabeads and that way you can get them in and remove the duct tape/adhesive weights.

Looks great! Welcome to the family!

02Shadow600 wrote:Here are some pictures of my new dark side ride. I balanced her with some self-adhesive balance weights that the guy who sold me the tire gave to me. I double secured the weights with some duct tape (per some guy on you-tube).
I've ridden 50 miles so far, and am becoming more confident - the swing-arm has not yet ripped apart the sidewall sending me to my death (as one guy who refused to put the tire on for me had postulated... although I am taking out out some extra life insurance unrelated to the CT decision!).
Thanks for all your support.

Dude....is that a 165/80/15???????? If it is what brand is it??? Very nice looking on the bike!


........................bobby

.

This is a ($56) general altimax HP 185/65 R15 88H. Temp A, traction A, tread 440. interestingly, the tire was almost exactly the same width as the stock dunlop (except a little more squared off at the top), and is a tad lower profile (1cm -ish)
I sealed the spoked rim with 3M 5200 fast cure.
I set the beads at around 80-90 lbs with a lot of tire lube - it was off the gauge in the red section
I [apparently] should have balanced using dyna beads, but instead used the old fashioned spin the wheel and find the heavy spot and add weight to the other side method.

Very Nice!.............thanks for the data!




.

very nice, now that's a wide side for the 600

mark f