Crossed Over - 1st In-Depth Report - Where's My Cookie?

Joined the Dark Side - First Report on the New Social Evil

Putting a car tire on the rear of a motorcycle is nothing new or even terribly innovative anymore and the tires have now proved themselves to tens of thousands of riders to be safe, effective, economical (lasting 4-8 times as long as an MC tire and costing a third to half as much). But moving into the Dark Side is new enough to draw “ooh” and “ahs” and even the occasional “What the...?!!” from the masses, enough so to still be considered “cool.” It’s like today’s tattoos in that respect. Even your mother might get one if the stars align just right and she feels it worth her while.

Alas, just as with today’s tats on Mom behind (or where ever), Dark Siding still draws its detractors and soothsayers of imminent doom to come...always, it would seem, from those who’ve not researched the topic, much less given it a try and certainly have nothing of which to base their comments other than opinion and a long standing notion that the earth is flat. But I kind of like that aspect as well. It starts conversations. So into the breach I ran!

I had the Yokohama Touring S “car” tire put on my VTX 1300C (2009) this last Saturday by my mechanic. He called me in the morning and told me the bead still hadn’t seated. I told him other Dark Siders who put on the same tire had had to go up to 100 lbs till they popped. He said he’d raise the pressure but didn’t want to lose his head. I said that was a good idea on both counts. It took 110 lbs of pressure to finally seat the bead. The mechanic later stated that he’d put in 36 lbs of pressure once the tire was on. When I said I’d like 40 lbs to start (so I could then work my way down in 2 lb increments to find the pressure I liked) I got my first expected lecture about wearing out the center of the tire tread. I held my counsel and road home with the tire pressure “as is.” The next morning, I checked the tire cold and found the pressure to actually be 38 lbs. I increased it to 40 lbs for my big test ride that day... more on that later.

It’s important to note that there are, as yet, no Dyna Beads, as recommended, in either tire. Both the rear and front are still using weights. I do plan to put in the beads on my own and will report on that when done and evaluated. I’m not looking forward to putting them in the rear since the stem is L shaped. So, I was more than a bit miffed that the mechanic didn’t put them in as promised and expected. The owner said he’d sold them to someone else...

The First Ride



The ride home on the Yokohama tire was “different” and noticeable and expected for numerous reasons. I was on heightened alert for differences since the tire was not the only thing that had been changed. I’d had new front progressive springs put in and all the bearings replaced with All Balls in both the front wheel and the steering neck. The difference I felt was not anything like what I was expecting, however...though I’m not sure I could say what it was I was actually anticipating. For the most part it was like...well..., it was like riding someone else’s bike. You know, not bad, just different enough to keep you alert. Due to the front wheel bearings being replaced there was no longer a Death Wobble (the reason the bike was in the shop to begin with) and I was easily able to remove my hands from the bars while riding a bit later on the short ride home just to test that out. This left all my attention now to the rear wheel performance and effects on both the bike and my riding.

The first 20-25 miles required more counter-steering force and I was immediately conscious of this. The tire performed flawlessly, if not better than before, on tight right/left turns from a stop. Based on those early experiences I don’t see any problems hitting the twisties on my ride through the Appalachian Mountains in two weeks up to NE Kentucky.

On several clear stretches of road home I did weaves both within my lane and then using both lanes of the entire road at speeds of about 55-60 mph to get some wear on the edges of the tire and see how the turning felt. This is where I most noticed the extra effort needed to counter-steer to hold the turn during my weavings. The Yokohama Touring S is more rounded at the edges than many of the tires other Dark Siders use, such as the Michelin Hydro Edge, so I never felt the “bump over” sensation that some have reported with those tires even brand new.

The next tests I tried were on long sweeping turns. Due to either my inexperience with the car tire or its newness, I noticed on the tighter sweeps (e.g. highway on/off ramps) that my turning felt a bit “scalloped” as the bike wanted to right itself; not forcefully, but enough to require the extra effort to push the handlebar toward the direction I wanted to head. I was missing the ability to “snake” through a curve and worried that this scalloped shaped turns might be a problem if I couldn’t get used to it or the tire didn’t change as it warmed up and worn in. I was later to find my worry unfounded.

My third deliberate test was to remove my hands from the grips (as mentioned earlier) and see how she handled. This test was mostly for the bearings issues. The bike was definitely stable again. However, I can’t seem to steer the bike with my thighs as before. The bike drifts with the road toward the right shoulder. I would assume that this is due to the additional width of the rear tire and the added gyroscopic weight it induces. The drift wasn’t severe, it just followed the slope of the road surface, but I like being able to steer the bike without hands when “necessary” during long hauls. This may yet rectify as the tire wears in. I’ll check it out again later to see.

I also took great care to make thorough observations from stops. While having to pull out several times into a tight turn at places where there was a lot of sand and/or loose gravel I found this car tire to be much more stable than with the motorcycle tires I’d had. The anticipated slip or slight skitter of the rear wheel never occurred. Also, there is no sense of a slip, slide or lose of grip when pulling away in a straight direction from a stop, either. Though I ride fast and hard on the road I NEVER make jack rabbit starts or stops. I learned to drive in the early mid 70’s and gas-saving gradual stops and starts are engrained into my being. My wife greatly appreciates this fact when riding 2Up behind me.

Meanwhile, back at the first ride...

After about 25 miles I began to feel a difference in the handling. Most of my nervousness about the tire was gone and I was getting more confident and comfortable with the ride itself. Mentally I was thinking that the tire seemed to be “warming up” or getting “softer.” Don’t know how to better describe it than that. However, I wasn’t sure if was the tire or just me getting used to the ride. Regardless, I attempted the weaving again both in my lane and using the entire asphalted surface from right shoulder to left. I did this at both 35 and 55 mph. At 35 mph I was using the cat eyes on the road as a slalom course and had no issues. It was much easier now and the tire seemed to be grabbing better. After traveling the 35 miles home I pulled off the road and down the steep grassy embankment that leads from the road, across my front lawn and to the shed. I have no driveway or path, just grass, lots of sand (it’s a 2.5 million year old beach - Dino’s Daytona) and pine straw. I had no issues; in fact, the bike handled better than she usually did with the motorcycle tire, especially coming to a stop on the grass. No sliding whatsoever. She also went up the wood ramp with no problem even though this can be a bit tricky with the sand and dust that’s always there.

Next Day - The First LONG Ride



Next day was Sunday. Mako (my riding buddy, Jeff) came over early for coffee and we then both headed up toward the NC line to check out the 4th annual “Antique Bikes on Main” (held the last Sunday of every July) in Chesnee, SC. The ride up was VERY pleasant. The country roads we took were almost abandoned. The weather was in the upper 70’s with high cloud cover. This was to be the big test ride and to get in the suggested 200+ miles on the tread all the other Dark Siders said is needed before the tire’s mold heat coating is worn off and the tire is then “broken in.” The bike was responding better and better every 20 mile or so all the way up.

On the way we hit a few bumps, divots and potholes as well as railroad tracks. Because I was trying to be conscious of the ride in regards to the rear tire pressure I’d been paying a lot of attention to how the bike via my hands, arms and rear end. The rear of the bike, at first, seemed a tad hard, but not too bad. The front however was taking some jolts when hitting the back end of a pot hole or a raised track, but after thinking about it I am inclined to attribute that to the new and stiffer front fork progressive springs. The reason is that it didn’t seem to affect me much if the tires merely dropped into a depression in the road, only when the front wheel hit a raised object.

After getting up to Chesnee and walking around town to check out the old bikes and displays we had lunch at the Bantam Chef Café (very nice 50’s style place with good food, great atmosphere and wonderfully friendly and helpful staff), showed off the tire to a few folks we knew from Columbia and then headed over to Cowpens Battlefield for a short 30 minute visit. It was here that I did a couple of short parking lot maneuvers with no problems and also here that I noticed backing up the bike was much more stable with the car tire than before. I had now put over 150 miles on the tire and it was time to head home.

I wanted to take a different route back, but we needed to get on I-85 toward Charlotte for less than 10 miles or do so. The tire, bike and I all did fine. Unfortunately, there was a three mile stretch where the road was very uneven and then a short one mile of shaved asphalt. The tire did well and, though she wanted to follow the tracks, I never got the feeling I was on ice, as is usually the case.

I managed to get the bike up around 85mph during the stretch on the interstate when it dawned on me that there was no tire noise. Some reports had attributed tire noise to certain types of car tires (especially the Hydro Edge), but the Yokohama Touring S had no such output. In fact, she was a quiet as could be. I would attribute this to the two narrow central cords of the tread. The watershed treads are definitely deep and easy to see. The tire isn’t gnarly looking as some, but it’s definitely noticeable...in a good way.

Total mileage for the first rides was 295. The next stage is get in another 700 miles to reach the 1,000 miles of experience other Dark Siders say you need to be totally confident in the transition and forget motorcycle tires forever.

After almost 300 miles and checking with two tanks of gas I can’t say I’ve noticed a difference in miles per gallon yet. There are still two things yet to check out while I’m still in the first reports stage. First is how the tire (size 205/75-15) affects the odometer. Since I did not have my GPS on the bike I cannot as yet speak to whether the new tire has any affect. This will be easy for me to tell since mine was off exactly 10% with the MC tires on the back. The second is how my wife as passenger feels about the change riding 2Up.

Getting Another’s Opinion

My buddy, Jeff (Mako) had been following me for closely for both days (first from the shop to home in my truck and second as Wing Man on our road trip) and his opinions on this tire were that 1) it looked really cool from behind and 2) it had an amazingly large footprint, especially in the turns. He’d been giving the tire and performance a lot of attention since his rear tire is also reaching its life’s end and he’s shopping the idea of joining the Dark Side as well. The only negative he had in his observations was the big rooster tail the tire kicks out on wet roads forcing whoever is behind me to make a choice to put on rain gear, change lanes, pull over or back off. Since I’m not into tailgaters of any sort, three of those four must be a good thing for me and anyone in a rain suit probably isn’t riding my butt anyway!

Conclusions

Well, that’s it for my observations, impressions and opinions, thus far. I’m getting used to all the new stuff on the bike and that definitely includes the rear tire. Everything seems to be going well. The tire felt and acted just like a motorcycle tire by the end of Sunday’s ride.

Let’s do this differently and start with any negatives first!

Cons:
• Bike wants to right itself in a curve if firmer counter-steering is not applied, leaning alone won’t do it (though this quickly become second nature/muscle memory to the rider and is soon forgotten)
• Stability has increased so the ability to steer with no hands on the grips is diminished (Note: ability to steer with one hand on a grip is totally unchanged except as noted in first bullet)
• No one wants to follow too closely in the rain or on wet roads (like riding near loud pipes or behind a trike, you may find your formation position changed if chance of rain exceeds 30% for a group ride)
• The ignorant, uneducated, pretentious critics and nay-sayers suddenly abound
• It can get tedious answering questions and “proving” you’re not insane (it’s sort of like everyone is now your new mother in law with unwanted advice, needless criticism and un-solicited opinions)

Potential Pros:
• Smoother ride for passenger
• Correction of Odometer reading - more true to distance bike travels

Definite Pros (or why I personally went over the Dark Side):
• Economy (cost much less than motorcycle tire)
• Tire Life (35-70K miles versus 6-14K)
• Larger “Footprint” (= greater traction/grip and stability)
• Grip (great in dry conditions, ever better in wet)
• Greater stability (wider flat surface in rear makes bike wants to stay upright)
• Smoother ride (feel road debris, cracks and grooves less)
• Sheds water better than a motorcycle tire
• Less affected by reflective “cat eyes” and other small road debris than a MC tire (especially in a curve)
• Much less likely to slip in micro-sand, gravel, newly wet roads or grass
• Less hampered or affected by small road debris
• Does not decrease miles per gallon
• Easy to get used to
• Does not roll onto sidewall during turns (contrary to myth), tire flexes just as with an MC tire (unlike a track sports bike, a cruiser would be scraping major body parts before the tire could ever get close to the side wall)
• Provides wider look from the rear
• The “cool” factor!
• Joining the Dark Side now still makes you a “pioneer”
• The Dark Side has cookies!


BEFORE you scream

I DO have photos of the bike, the tire, the tire on the bike and even some during the shake down ride. But they are still on my camera, which is NOT with me, and I wanted to get this report posted ASAP.
So I will either get them in here this week if I can or link a site where you can see them soon.

Awesome write up! Very well done! Do you write for a living? I agree with all you wrote.

Excellent write up believe you have touched on all aspects of the darkside.Don't hold it against us ,we have no control of the cookies.

Good write up thanks for sharing!

Very good write-up.
I have the same tire in a 205?70/15 size. I can say coming from a different car tire that the extra counter steer is really minimal. IMHO. You will shortly get to the point where you no longer notice it. Humans are very adaptable.

Jerry

Great write up! Bobby, Smokey, and Jerry ate all the cookies ... I think Doc got his share also.

Thanks for the report, and Welcome to the Darkside!

Thanks for the write up and....Ok, I ate all the cookies!



........................bobby

Here's some photos of the bike, tire and other pics.

http://www.vtxcafe.com/showthread.php?t=63872 (forgot to post the link earlier, sorry!)

NOTE: It's basically the same post but with more detail, photos and some editing. The photos were taken after riding in the rain so it doesn't show off the bike very well, but you might enjoy it and the comments... Oh yeah...some of the photos are of YOU guys later in the posting!

All I see is your big ole sig pic....

Link is now on there... and here as well >> http://www.vtxcafe.com/showthread.php?t=63872

Sorry!

Thanks for a great write-up. From my experience so far, the more miles you put on it the more you will like it!!!!!!! I'll never go back!

Hey Twin ... even though you ate all the cookies ... couldn't you at least send him an empty box???