stupid question

OK I think I understand why alot of people are riding on the darkside, better mileage out of their tires. But my main question is about the safety issue, how safe is it ? Motorcycle tires are rounded to allow a better contact area with the road especially during hard cornering. A car tire doesnt really allow for this. I would think during hard cornering you are on a very small edge of the tire. I am stricktly taking a stab in the dark here (no pun intended) and guessing that for most people riding on the darkiside, that they are primarily riding on freeways or interstates, therefor do not come across too many hard winding turns. Is my assumption correct? Please fill me in on this. Also please dont tell me to use the search, Ive probably read 50 pages and yet to find out my answer. Thanks in advance !

Twisted-x, for a picture of a Valkyrie riding the real twisties check out a picture of Smokin'joe dragging his pegs on the Dragon. You can see that he is riding the Darkside and it looks like he still has more contact area on the C/T than he would have on the M/T. To see the picture from the home page click on 'Pictures' then click on 'A picture of my other Valk'. Scroll down until you see his Cream and Yellow Valk and check him out riding the Dragon. Scroll through the rest of the tread and read the info and this may answer some questions.

Twisted-X wrote:OK I think I understand why alot of people are riding on the darkside, better mileage out of their tires. But my main question is about the safety issue, how safe is it ? Motorcycle tires are rounded to allow a better contact area with the road especially during hard cornering. A car tire doesnt really allow for this. I would think during hard cornering you are on a very small edge of the tire. I am stricktly taking a stab in the dark here (no pun intended) and guessing that for most people riding on the darkiside, that they are primarily riding on freeways or interstates, therefor do not come across too many hard winding turns. Is my assumption correct? Please fill me in on this. Also please dont tell me to use the search, Ive probably read 50 pages and yet to find out my answer. Thanks in advance !

Twisted,

Glad to have you here and yes, valid questions. At least you can come here without being blasted for asking the question. So here it goes..........

!. Our tires are NOT flat! The have the same contour of a worn motorcycle tire. The only reason you change the motorcycle tire is NOT because it doesn't handle any more, it's because it's out of rubber in the middle. Our Darksides just start and stay that way. When we wear one out the whole tire is gone. Not so with the motorcycle tire. You still have good sidewalls left....about 60% of the tire is unused. We use the whole tire whether riding straight or when doing twisties, we have about 40% of the contact patch is still on the ground in the twisties. It's still larger than a motorcycle tire can produce. (Even a 3/4 worn car tire still has rain grooves left, NOT so with a motorcycle tire)

2. Just so you know, we don't run low air pressure and flex the sidewalls to make it work. We use the roll the tire just like a motorcycle tire and never get on the sidewalls. This Mod is for a cruiser only because by the time we get leaned to get close to gettting off the tread and onto the sidewalls, we are dragging everthing on our bikes and couldn't lean any more if we wanted to. (I have done the tread pattern by running it thru water and then making tight turns...the car tire contact patch is always a twice that of the motorcycle tire.

3. If a vehicle that weight 3500 lbs. on the average can't destroy a car tire all the while stressing the side walls while the rim of the wheel stays on it's on plane and the tire stresses and flexes and distorts and doesn't fail while traveling on another plane...how much more damage could we do if we never stress our car tires and always under any condition we ride in, our tires stay directly in line with rim and the line of motion. Plus loaded we (motorcycles) can only at best put a 1/4 of load on it that a vehicle could put on it.

4. The statement that we only run hiways and interstates couldn't be further from the truth. I have dragged my pipes so much since going to the darkside, that they looked wrecked...hehehehe I have already tore all the peg indicators off my pegs from diving in so hard that instead of scraping the just snapped off. Do some research on here and you will see all kinds of twisty riding from Valk's to wing's to X's and they have ridden all over this country. Check out Daniel Meyers site and see where's he's ridden a car tire and he will never, ever go back to a motorcycle tire. You see at many post's and this is common..."I wouldn't go back to a motorcycle tire on the rear if they were free!" It's true. I want go back either, even if they were free.

5. Biggest myth is that motorcycle tires wear out because they have softer rubber....Myth Busted! They have harder rubber, that's why wet riding conditions they slip so much. I have a durometer and I have tested at least 30 motorcycle tires to car tires...and in every case my car tire was at least 15 to 20 points softer than any motorcycle tire I tested. That's why wet riding conditions and twisties the car tire kicks butt every time. Softer is more traction every time. My son races karts and we are always looking for softer compounds and ways to make more grip. Now, why does our car tires last twice to 4 times as many miles than a M/T is because all our C/T's tread is working together instead of one little contact patch of a M/T. I know this might sound ignorant...but the world's flat where I live and motorcycle tires are round. It's gonna wear 4 times faster.

6. I don't expect you to trust us...but look on here and PM some guys in your area and just watch or follow some one around who has a darkside. You will be impressed. Plus, if it didn't work then the Boss Hoss's would be out of business. Think about it. How much HP do they have and the C/T works for them...they could put a 300 M/T on back, but it doesn't hold up or could handle the HP even in twisties. You don't hear of them wrecking every time they get to a curve...hehehehe

7. This mod only came about because some of us where daily riders or traveled for a living and every 6,000 to 8,000 miles we had to put a new tire on with 60% of it still good and the prices keeps going up. We didn't do it for the money only...it's the principle and practical nature of the abuse put on a M/T. It doesn't work on high HP cruisers.

8. This mod isn't for every one. If you only ride 5,000 miles a year. Fagitaboutit! It isn't for you. If you are a daily commuter or traveler and you want a tire to handle any thing mother nature or a road condition (including twisties) can throw at you....then this is your way to go.

9. Collect all the data you can and NOT from guys who don't put their lives on the line and ride every day and put their money where they mouth is.....or better said. Don't take advice from guys who don't do what you are planning to do. The more data you got the better decision you can make. So, good luck with your decision and if we can help, WE WILL BE THERE FOR YOU.

10. Remember, this is a mod that you do willing. But remember, if we wanted to be safe on the road, we would buy a SUV. We already have picked the most dangerous hobby any one can think of for riding America's roads against cagers.....hehehehehe

Thanks for asking. This probably doesn't answer all you questions, but it will get you started toward the Darkside. The best advice I can give you.....is read all the stuff on here dedicated the the riding of the car tire...I promise you, someone else has asked the same question. Plus we posted on the stickies of some of our topic headings the list on names of guys who are riding the car tire and their models and tire used. We are a new site..only two and half months old, so not a lot of guys have found us yet that do the darkside but we are growing.


................bobby

ps....Plus most of car tires can be run with little or NO extra mod work required and in most case go wider with no extra mods.


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Twisted-X, first of all let me say that I've ridden with Twin in a few twisties. Riding behind him I was always impressed with the amount of rubber he has on the road. When I first heard of all this Darkside stuff I didnt really think it would work. I started reading up on it and then I met Twin in person. I saw where his pegs and the underside of his pipes were all scraped up. Twin and I went to a parking lot and I did some tight turns at varying speeds, and a few figure 8's. I was Impressed with the handling. The next time I met Twin was at his house for a Tech session with Smokey. Twin showed us the durometer and took readings on the 4 bikes that were there. His car tire was definitely the softest. After seeing it all in person and riding it for myself, I have decided to go Darkside too. I'm going to have mine put on this Saturday and afterward Twin and I are going riding on the Darkside.

Welcome to the Madness!
Muntz

Here's where we are going, Muntz!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgloaS4NGyM&feature=related



......................bobby


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twin1300 wrote:Here's where we are going, Muntz!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgloaS4NGyM&feature=related



......................bobby


.

Something from my era .................... oooooooh yeah!

Twin,

Boy can I tell you've talked about this with people. That has to be the best write up on all those idea's that I've read yet. Combine that with Daniel Meyer's write up and there aren't really any questions left. Good Job (And props to Daniel for leading the way!!)

basically the CT's have 2 or 3 times the contact patch when riding straight and once you get into hard cornering you are getting back down to a normal MC contact patch in the turn.... no worries!

Thanks guys, and yes a great , informative and wonderful write up there, twin 1300. I understand it now. Finally sunk in and makes sense. Appreciate the "good" info. I do have another question....I have on 04/vtx1800 do I ned to do any modifications to the bike and or rear wheel/rim ? And what tire would be recommended for my bike?
Thanks again for the great info and nice welcome, I will be hanging out here too (vtxoa is my other home LOL)

Twisted x

If you have alloy wheels you will not have to do any other mods. Only those running spoke wheels need do more is they want to run tubeless. A lot of the spoke wheel guys are running darkside with stock tubes and have no problems. You can find more info on tire sizes for the 1800 in the vtx1800 tech board.
Welcome to the forum and the funhouse

See you out there
Smokey

Twisted-X wrote:Thanks guys, and yes a great , informative and wonderful write up there, twin 1300. I understand it now. Finally sunk in and makes sense. Appreciate the "good" info.

+2 Twin
That write-up was good enough to be published. At least as a Sticky.

Twisted if you are looking for more info here is a link to what Daniel Meyers has to say about why he runs the Darkside.
http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html

Twin post is informative. I have known him for a long time and when he first went to the Darkside and was telling me why he made the decision. We took some measurements of his 165 C/T and a M/T I had been running on an 800 Suzuki. My M/T had worn down and getting flat across the tread from normal wear. The width of the flat spot on my M/T was 1/2 inch less that the width of the C/T on Twins VTX1300. That proved it to me. I had almost 6500 miles on the tire and was ready for a new one. I found an '03 Valkyrie and made a trade. I am about ready to go to the Darkside on the Valk. Good luck with your pursuit.

Twisted-X wrote:Thanks guys, and yes a great , informative and wonderful write up there, twin 1300. I understand it now. Finally sunk in and makes sense. Appreciate the "good" info. I do have another question....I have on 04/vtx1800 do I ned to do any modifications to the bike and or rear wheel/rim ? And what tire would be recommended for my bike?
Thanks again for the great info and nice welcome, I will be hanging out here too (vtxoa is my other home LOL)

no mods required to the rim or swingarm... depending on tire size, load and shock length you might need to trim back the inner fender brace lip a little... come see me in the 1800 section and I'll get you fixed right up!