Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

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Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  Pointman on Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:40 pm

Time for a new tire.... VTX1800R with 20k on my Altimax HP (205/60R16, generally run at 38# but have ranged 32# to 45#) with just shy of 2/32 left at the center rib wear bars. I'm looking to replace it (Thursday 9/2 actually) before a 3k ride down to the dragon 3rd week of September. Likely the Altimax has more than enough meat left but I have to change out the front anyway so might was well get it over with.

Overall I've been happy with the Altimax as my first CT but now that I understand the beast a little better I'm looking to solve a couple of small annoyances.

Primarily even though this is a V rated tire the Altimax's sidewalls are a bit thin and flex a bit even running over 40# which I believe contributes to some bob in rough interstate curves. So I'm looking for a stiffer sidewall by going for a more performance oriented all-season.

Additionally the Altimax profile is a bit more blocky and though I'm acclimated I'd like to try a rounder profile as well.

After much research I've narrowed my once extensive list to 3.

General Exclaim UHP 205/55R16
Yoko Avid ENVigor 205/60R16
Bridgestone G019 205/60R16

Price is within $10 (mounted) so that's not a factor. All three are good looking with nice tread patterns and profiles so I'm pretty certain I could flip a coin and not be unhappy...

I recognize the Exclaim is only available in the 205/55 but at 70mph the speedo is only off 3mph and I am running the 1300 final drive. As it is with the 205/60 the GPS says my speedo is right on - so if the UHP is a good choice that 3mph is something I'm more than willing to live with especially considering it's still less than the factory setup speedo error...

So my question to the assembled darkside rogues gallery here is who has experience with any of these tires? I know the G019 is pretty well regarded but I have seen very little about the Exclaim UHP and the Yoko ENVigor...

Thanks!

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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  nodakbassmaster on Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:07 am

I'd rule out the General just because the profile is way to low... other than that, draw straws? lol

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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  twin1300 on Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:31 am

Stay away from the 55 profiles! I think that just makes things worse! I think the V rated tires are just too stiff and heavily built for such a lighter weight of our bikes instead of the heavy car..but most darksiders what the highest rating, like it's bragging rights or something! JMO


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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  Pointman on Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:20 pm

twin1300 wrote:Stay away from the 55 profiles! I think that just makes things worse! I think the V rated tires are just too stiff and heavily built for such a lighter weight of our bikes instead of the heavy car..but most darksiders what the highest rating, like it's bragging rights or something! JMO


.......................bobby

I'm curious, other than the small speedo error what other problems does a 55 profile tire introduce? Otherwise it is 0.8 shorter (.4 in the sidewall) and would set the back end lower which I don't like. I see several happily running high performance summer sport tires in 55's so wasn't aware of any issues otherwise.

I'm running the v rated 60 profile now and even up to 45 pounds I get back end bobbing wobble on bumps in interstate curves (bushings and bearings are good, shocks on 5, and I've adjusted the neck pull from 2 to 6 pounds tension).

The sidewalls of the Altimax HP's aren't as stiff as the V rated G019 I examined at the dealer. Likely a "touring" versus "sport". And I may just notices it more because I'm riding 140 miles a day on these same interstates? Or possibly it's the more square profile?

Ultimately I think I'm leaning toward the Yoko.... Any problems typical to the Yoko's before I order one?





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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  twin1300 on Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:41 pm

Pointman wrote:
twin1300 wrote:Stay away from the 55 profiles! I think that just makes things worse! I think the V rated tires are just too stiff and heavily built for such a lighter weight of our bikes instead of the heavy car..but most darksiders what the highest rating, like it's bragging rights or something! JMO


.......................bobby

I'm curious, other than the small speedo error what other problems does a 55 profile tire introduce? Otherwise it is 0.8 shorter (.4 in the sidewall) and would set the back end lower which I don't like. I see several happily running high performance summer sport tires in 55's so wasn't aware of any issues otherwise.

I'm running the v rated 60 profile now and even up to 45 pounds I get back end bobbing wobble on bumps in interstate curves (bushings and bearings are good, shocks on 5, and I've adjusted the neck pull from 2 to 6 pounds tension).

The sidewalls of the Altimax HP's aren't as stiff as the V rated G019 I examined at the dealer. Likely a "touring" versus "sport". And I may just notices it more because I'm riding 140 miles a day on these same interstates? Or possibly it's the more square profile?

Ultimately I think I'm leaning toward the Yoko.... Any problems typical to the Yoko's before I order one?


You mean Toyo? Yoko is John Lennon's wife! LOL

The shorter the profile or side wall the stiffer the tire and the harsher ride! Why would you want to go with the stiff tire like a motorcycle tire? Secondly, I think you have something else wrong to have the wobble. I'm running the 65 series and other the 70 series with no wobbles from the tire. Mine developed and it was the cheap 1300 neck bearings and changed it an it's gone now. Heck, do you homework on the OA site, the wobble shows up on bike that DON'T even run the car tire.

...

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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  jedishon on Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:01 pm

I run a Yokohama Avid Touring on my 1300. Haven't noticed any problems yet.

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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  Pointman on Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:21 pm

twin1300 wrote:
Pointman wrote:
twin1300 wrote:Stay away from the 55 profiles! I think that just makes things worse! I think the V rated tires are just too stiff and heavily built for such a lighter weight of our bikes instead of the heavy car..but most darksiders what the highest rating, like it's bragging rights or something! JMO


.......................bobby

I'm curious, other than the small speedo error what other problems does a 55 profile tire introduce? Otherwise it is 0.8 shorter (.4 in the sidewall) and would set the back end lower which I don't like. I see several happily running high performance summer sport tires in 55's so wasn't aware of any issues otherwise.

I'm running the v rated 60 profile now and even up to 45 pounds I get back end bobbing wobble on bumps in interstate curves (bushings and bearings are good, shocks on 5, and I've adjusted the neck pull from 2 to 6 pounds tension).

The sidewalls of the Altimax HP's aren't as stiff as the V rated G019 I examined at the dealer. Likely a "touring" versus "sport". And I may just notices it more because I'm riding 140 miles a day on these same interstates? Or possibly it's the more square profile?

Ultimately I think I'm leaning toward the Yoko.... Any problems typical to the Yoko's before I order one?


You mean Toyo? Yoko is John Lennon's wife! LOL

The shorter the profile or side wall the stiffer the tire and the harsher ride! Why would you want to go with the stiff tire like a motorcycle tire? Secondly, I think you have something else wrong to have the wobble. I'm running the 65 series and other the 70 series with no wobbles from the tire. Mine developed and it was the cheap 1300 neck bearings and changed it an it's gone now. Heck, do you homework on the OA site, the wobble shows up on bike that DON'T even run the car tire.

...

There may well be something else going on but I've checked everything 6 ways from Sunday: New shock bushings; shocks set to 5; checked the neck bearings for wear, race seating and tested a wide range of tensions (currently running 6# which has helped a lot) and more. (the 1800 came with roller instead of ball bearings so they usually last but need adjusted) This was an issue prior to switching to the Altimax so all of this was addressed and tested prior to the switch. Of course the Cobra was cupped so badly at 12k I expected some low speed "wiggle" as the tire went up/down/up/down on the scallops! (pic in my oa maintenance entry)

The only time the wobble shows up is sharp bumps in high speed banking curves where I'm out to the edge of the tire. The bump causes the tire to bounce like a bouncy ball which sets up a wiggle all through the bike - essentially a fight between the Altimax wanting to go upright and me trying to keep it down in the curve. Think bumpy merge ramp @ 70+.... it's manageable but disconcerting none the less... and I attribute part of it to the more square shape of the Altimax more than anything. It always did have a funny feeling squiggle up on those sharp corners Shocked

As for harsher ride the harshest CT can't match an Avon Cobra MT @ 40 lbs! Now THAT is HARSH!!!! Heck if I went back to an MT at this point my wife would quite riding with me, she likes the CT ride much better...

Thanks Jerry! I ordered the ENVigor ($132 installed from a local tire chain) this afternoon and if I can get home quickly this evening and drop the wheel I'll get it on tomorrow. New ME880 for the front if I can find someone to change it quickly enough.

These things are inexpensive enough though that if I don't like it I can try the G019 in 10k and still be ahead in the dollars sense. Very Happy


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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  jedishon on Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:29 pm

Sounds like the old tire had a broken belt. My old douglas acted the same way. I was pretty sure the belt was broke when I took the tire off and it was wore more on one side than the other.

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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  Pointman on Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:54 pm

jedishon wrote:Sounds like the old tire had a broken belt. My old douglas acted the same way. I was pretty sure the belt was broke when I took the tire off and it was wore more on one side than the other.

Jerry

Jerry I suspect you've hit on it. When I pulled the wheel last night and started looking at it one side seemed larger diameter and the depth at the wear bars were different less than an inch off the centerline. Likely it got gradually worse and I simply adapted without noticing much beyond the that high speed bobbing over bumps.

The Yokohama ENVigor is on and to say the difference is night and day is a major understatement. cheers

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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  quadancer on Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:29 am

One thing not mentioned about the lower profiles was crossover effect. IMO, you're nearly riding on the rims, so you'll have more difficulty at the initial countersteer. It's also what I think about the wider tires. If you want a bike to just drop into the corners like a MT, you'd want a narrower, taller tire.
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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  Pointman on Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:47 am

quadancer wrote:One thing not mentioned about the lower profiles was crossover effect. IMO, you're nearly riding on the rims, so you'll have more difficulty at the initial countersteer. It's also what I think about the wider tires. If you want a bike to just drop into the corners like a MT, you'd want a narrower, taller tire.

Interesting, I wasn't sure what that was called. The General exhibited it very badly and took a fair amount of consistent counter steer pressure all the time. I mean it actually felt like my old '79 GS1000 except I didn't have to hang off the seat Laughing As my first CT though I accepted....

But this new Yokohama requires very little counter steer and if I didn't know better I'd think it was an MT. I mean it's like I just got a new bike. But then new tires can do that anyway....

But it is interesting how radically different 2 tires of even the same size can be.

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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  quadancer on Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:58 am

"crossover effect" is just something I came up with to define the shift from one lean to the other. It seemed self-explanatory for the most part.
You oughta see some of the OTHER words I make up! What a Face
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Re: Decisions, decisions, decisions!! (Which Tire)

Post  abfpat on Fri Sep 10, 2010 2:39 am

IMHO, I'm real happy with the Michelin HE 205/65/16.
She rides real smooth, and handles great on the curves even in wet pavement.
I know you weren't considering the Michelin HE, just thought I would toss my $.02 in.
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