The new tires are on

View previous topic View next topic Go down

The new tires are on

Post  Huzzunga_Din on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:32 pm

I would like to start by thanking all the member who replied and messaged me about this installation. Especially Larry and his friend who offered to have me come down to Olkmulgee on Saturday night and they would help me mount the tire using their machine. I was too wiped out after a 10 hour day of overtime plus a couple hours of work at the house.

The local Honda store mounted the Metzler, and the C/T as well. I went with the GY TT 205/60/16R as Larry suggested. Joy & I did the rear tire swap in the driveway, with no motorcycle jack, you don't want to know how. No mods at all to the 2005 1800 Retro. I did have to partially deflate to install.

I have only put about 10 miles on the tires so far. Low speed handling at the carwash using the vacuum cleaner stations as obstacles was great.

Going into turns feels normal, with a bit of trail feel on the rear tire into the turn. Once in the bike feels like it is on rails. That Metzler is going to be a great front tire I can already tell. Coming out of tunrs the bike comes up nice and gentle. No "tip up" as I was thinking might happen.

An odd thing is when I roll on her hard, I swear I hear a "Sch-wing" (sword being drawn in amoive noise). Is that the Dynabeads catching up? Really strange.

The bike is no longer tracking cracks and tar lines, WONDERFUL!!!!!

I had the shocks set to 5, and the TP at 37 I think. Ultra smooth ride 2 up. Joy says it is much better, not feeling bumps, especially every little bump. I agree with her on that.

So, I am curious about the "trailing" feeling in turns. It won't take any getting used to, but I am wondering if this is an indicator i need to increase tire pressure. Also I can feel that I am riding the center ridge onthe tire, I feel just a hint of that sometimes.

Braking seems much smoother on the back.

Anyway, so far so great. I expect it to only get better. I will put some pictures in my album, if I have made an album here.

Huzz
avatar
Huzzunga_Din

Number of posts : 40
Age : 61
Location : USA
Registration date : 2009-07-06

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Steve-O on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:44 pm

You will only feel that "trailing" at low speed turns. It's more of an odd sensation than anything else. I do know that it's nothing to worry about.

Kudo's for taking it out in a parking lot to test it out. Be sure to test out the rear braking. Take it out to a parking lot and do some fast starts and stops. Build some confidence in your tire.

Welcome to the dark side!
avatar
Steve-O
Moderate user
Moderate user

Number of posts : 1153
Age : 58
Location : Dallas, TX
Registration date : 2008-02-05

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  horseman8m on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:48 pm

Welcome to the Darkside.
the easiest one so far is Photobucket
http://photobucket.com/
ok , I'm going to ask anyway, if you didn't have a MC jack how did you change the tire.
I have a front end loader on my tractor,,,
or loading it in the bed of a pickup truck, blocking up the rear of the frame to rise the rear wheel off the tailgate, then removing the tailgate to get access,,,,
avatar
horseman8m

Number of posts : 1449
Age : 29
Location : valdosta , GA.
Registration date : 2008-02-09

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Huzzunga_Din on Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:54 pm

Thanks Steve. I will be doing alot of the "learning curve" stuff before Joy & I really let it out 2 up. I have no clue how to do pictures here, but here is a link over to the VTX Cafe where I was able to post some pictures.
http://www.vtxcafe.com/showthread.php?p=374946#post374946
Jeff

4 x 4's across the bike, under it. Lean left, put a 1 x 6 in, lean right, put another 1 x 6 in until the bike is almost high enough to remove the tire. They were all 18 inches long, and rock solid, still not a recommnded method. Then loosened the fender to tilt for clearance. I have to get a M/C lift. This was way too dangerous a method. Something like 8 1 x 6's on each side, front end strapped to stay straight.
avatar
Huzzunga_Din

Number of posts : 40
Age : 61
Location : USA
Registration date : 2009-07-06

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  nodakbassmaster on Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:08 pm

Looks good! cheers

_________________
05 1800F/N
215/45/18 Toyo T1R
I walk on water

avatar
nodakbassmaster
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 1604
Age : 38
Location : Rapid City, SD
Registration date : 2007-12-15

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  horseman8m on Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:15 pm

well it worked didn't it, good job.
and that is a great looking bike:
http://www.vtxcafe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9187&d=1250650028
http://www.vtxcafe.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9188&d=1250650041
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
avatar
horseman8m

Number of posts : 1449
Age : 29
Location : valdosta , GA.
Registration date : 2008-02-09

Back to top Go down

re new tires are on

Post  Larry Simpson on Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:12 pm

Well Jeff,we wondered what happened to you I started to call but figgured you had gotten tied up on your house project. I am glad to hear you are there. There is a lot to be said when you are able to accomplish your dreams on your own even though it is sometimes harder work.now just enjoy enjoy enjoy. Very Happy Very Happy
avatar
Larry Simpson

Number of posts : 1007
Age : 67
Location : Okmulgee,Ok
Registration date : 2008-08-18

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Huzzunga_Din on Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:54 am

Thanks Larry, I was going to call as well because the parts guy had said "No they would not mount it". On a whim, as long as I was there, I asked the service manager he said sure. He didn't lecture or anything. He did kind of interrogate me a bit as to "These really aren't for everyone etc". My response was " I know I have to go right into a learning curve on this tire". So I guess he figured I was of the right state of mind for him to feel comfortable doing it. Like every American male I am frozen at 14 years old for emotional develpoment, but I do have a bit of common sense lol.

I got home, had already been told at 1 PM the tire wasn't in. So I made two trips into the attic doing fart fan ducts. I showered, and called them at 4 PM and Kenny tells me "Your tire is right here". So then it became an unplanned hurry as they close at 6 PM. At $15 I couldn't pass up a mount 1 miles from home.

There is a rally north of Claremore this weekend. We are hoping to do the poker run, if we have a sitter. If you all make it up, we will get together. You can look it up under Tiawah Rally or something, but they changed the name. Oklahoma motorcycle events has it listed online. $25 tickets for th eweekend, $10 day of I think for poker run. Look to be sure.
Jeff
avatar
Huzzunga_Din

Number of posts : 40
Age : 61
Location : USA
Registration date : 2009-07-06

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Huzzunga_Din on Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:47 pm

Going from 37 PSI up to 40 PSI changed everything.

No more sensation other than tight ass turning. Grips the road so hard well, I can't even think of another way to described it. Ran her at 80 MPH on the Broken Arrow Expressway, SUPER SMOOTH, like glass.

A machinist friend and I want to make some bushings for the shocks out of Al Ni Br (Aluminum Nickel Bronze) as is used for aircraft bushings, but so far I haven't found out the dimensions of the shock rod ends. I guess I may end up buy a pair, I missed out on eBay buy a few bucks last night.

If anyone knows these dimensions on an 1800 shock, to the .001 for diameter and length let me know. We are going to make two hat bushings for each rod end, to an interference fit, cool them in liquid notrogen, heat the rod ends with a heat gun, and pop them in. Let the shock do it's job.
Huzz
avatar
Huzzunga_Din

Number of posts : 40
Age : 61
Location : USA
Registration date : 2009-07-06

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Doc on Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:48 pm

5/8" Shaft Dia, 7/8" OD, 3/4" Length; These are for 1300 shock, are 1800 the same?

_________________

2012 Goldwing Candy Red
Michelin Alpin PA3 195/55/16   The Darkside... Ain't nothin' but a rubber thang...  Vader
avatar
Doc
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 1069
Age : 63
Location : Tahlequah it's in NE Oklahoma.
Registration date : 2008-04-21

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Huzzunga_Din on Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:53 pm

Thanks Doc, that is a start. We will have to wait for someone to confirm that they are the same size on each bike.
Huzz
avatar
Huzzunga_Din

Number of posts : 40
Age : 61
Location : USA
Registration date : 2009-07-06

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Huzzunga_Din on Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:24 pm

Today was fun, ran 80 again on the B.A. Expressway, just beautiful. I took clover leaf exits and entrances I knew to be smooth as fast as I could, still didn't get the boards down, but it just glued to the road.Maybe Sunday I can hit the twisties at Spavinaw. I really don't have to scrape the boards, but it would be interesting to touch them again. I only have once, and then on th e right side.

I went by Honda to thank the service guys, and spent 45 minutes standing around while 2 fo them took it our for a test ride. They both like it, and are reading the Darkside forums now.
Long & short of it, one has an 1800 and is going Darkside when his tire is worn out. I am going to order several patches, and hand them out when folks switch over.
Jeff
avatar
Huzzunga_Din

Number of posts : 40
Age : 61
Location : USA
Registration date : 2009-07-06

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  nodakbassmaster on Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:42 pm

1300 and 1800 shocks are interchangeable... just make sure you know if the upper shock mount is 'sposed to be the bearing type like in the 05+ models or the bushings type in the one prior to that... bounce

_________________
05 1800F/N
215/45/18 Toyo T1R
I walk on water

avatar
nodakbassmaster
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 1604
Age : 38
Location : Rapid City, SD
Registration date : 2007-12-15

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Huzzunga_Din on Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:18 pm

I will have to look, this is an '05. If i have bearings in the upper, then only the lower bushing will be worn, I hope. Still planning on the bronze bushing install if the bushings are rubber.
Jeff
avatar
Huzzunga_Din

Number of posts : 40
Age : 61
Location : USA
Registration date : 2009-07-06

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Dan on Fri Aug 21, 2009 11:51 pm

05 Retro has old style junk rubber bushings on both ends, 05 up 1800C & F only, have new style shocks w/upgraded bushings.
Bronze bushings will be quite rigid, the new improved bushings, Honda part no. 52489-HN0-671 are cheap enough and will work great on your stock shocks.
avatar
Dan

Number of posts : 211
Location : NH
Registration date : 2008-05-15

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  nodakbassmaster on Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:25 am

true, and like Dan was saying, the new version of the bushings (the ones that I know are used for the lowers with the bearing uppers) are poly instead of rubber too! bounce

_________________
05 1800F/N
215/45/18 Toyo T1R
I walk on water

avatar
nodakbassmaster
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 1604
Age : 38
Location : Rapid City, SD
Registration date : 2007-12-15

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Huzzunga_Din on Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:46 am

Dan, Nodak and all,
Thanks for the replies. I guess my line of thinking is like this. If the poly, or nylon, is soft enough to wear out quickly, then why not consider the Oilite or ANB?

I see two issues in this type rigid of installation, and I have had a third pointed out to me.

The first would be fretting, a wear, or type of corrosion. In the current type of installation that is caused by movement of one material against the other. Having seen a few pictures out there by folks who have posted pictures of their shot rubber bushings, I would not be surprised if they don't have some fretting on the shock rod ends if the attach bolt touched.

The second issue is alignment of the shocks in a perfect vertical travel. The poly or rubber bushings are forgiving in that they allow the shocks to settle in, or, maintain a kind of dynamic alignment. Thinking about it, they would actually cushion against an ever changing misalignment of the shocks in an imperfect linear travel through the movement of the swingarm on the road. Performing a perfectly shimmed vertical alignment would be quite difficult using shims on tapered bushings. The use of a straightedge comes to mind first, but I would only have the shock bolt surface on the frame to use as an alignment point. Sounds like a pretty small surface diameter to true everything off of very effectively. And if they are equally out of alignment, then equal shimming of the upper or lower bushings to have both shocks in alignment with each other gets difficult.

So, I am sure we all understand the fretting issue. Whether it is metal or bushing material wearing, it is fretting. What about the importance of using softer poly or whatever material bushings versus ABR bushings which are extremely rigid?

Let’s throw out for now the difficulty of obtaining a perfect alignment, and presume for the sake of discussion a perfect alignment can be accomplished.

So, for the sake of this discussion, I have made ABR (Aluminum Nickel Bronze) bushings, and aligned them perfectly. I now have a very rigid and nearly non-fretting shock installation. I cannot compensate for imperfect alignment within the shock itself.

What have I presumably accomplished in this type of installation?


1. I have an almost wear free rod end

2. I managed to install the shocks in a perfect alignment and maintain that alignment of the shocks relative to each other through their travel of the frame relative to the swingarm points.

The third issue:
At Honda, the service manager was concerned I would lose the ability of the shocks to flex a bit independent of each other, and I suppose allow for some slight independent travel on the swingarm? He didn’t say it exactly like that, but it was kind of what I got out of the conversation.

Okay, so each side needs a bit of independent flex for road conditions and turns?

That is interesting, and I hadn’t considered that movement, only having thought of up and down movement of the swingarm. It sounds like a bit of “sway” has to be built in, possibly for comfort and ease of handling. However, the swingarm is not jointed in the center where it through bolts to the frame. The swingarm is a rigid one piece U shape structure as we know once the shaft and final drive are bolted on to complete the swingarm.

So other than actually flex of the arm material itself, how then is a softer bushing going to contribute to some kind of independent travel of one side of the swingarm as compared to the other?

To me, the answer is, only through the flexibility of the bushing material itself. Is that important? Must the swingarm have some amount of “give” one side relative to the other for safe handling, or a comfortable ride? Whether or not some flexiability is important to handling, I do not know. Flexiability at the attach points would seem to be a factor that would degrade handling. Thsi may all be "race track" type thinking and not really worthwhile on this type of bike.

I do not know the answer to that one. It seems to me that using the softer material is more of a protection for the shock ends and frame attach points. You mentioned in later models they went to a bearing type rod end on the lower mount? This then allows for a constant alignment of the shock through its travel. It would seem the upper rubber/poly bushing being left in place takes the beating.

Well, it is all very interesting to discuss, I suppose for now I will have to go to Honda and check their upgrade for my existing bushings. I am interested in continuing to investigate an ABR bushing, or even a upper and lower bearing type installation.

It is the third “issue” that nags at me. I will be watching Wayne and Charlies reports to see what they are saying about their bushing installation performance.

Off to the Honda fiche to look up the new bushings and their price.

All for now
Jeff


As an aside, I just looked at my bushngs, uppers worn, lowers looked good.
avatar
Huzzunga_Din

Number of posts : 40
Age : 61
Location : USA
Registration date : 2009-07-06

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Dan on Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:21 am

Be aware, the new bushings are not listed as an upgrade for your old style shocks, I posted the part no. you need above.
If you want to look it up, their actual appl. is 05 up VTX1800C and F only. They'll fit your shocks perfectly, upper and lower, have not shown any premature wear problems, and are plenty firm enough for precise tight handling.
If you really want to improve handling, and ride quality, get some Progressive 440's for a noticeable difference.


Last edited by Dan on Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Dan

Number of posts : 211
Location : NH
Registration date : 2008-05-15

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Huzzunga_Din on Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:48 am

Thanks Dan,
I had compared P/N's and noted that was not the part number for the 2005 R. So I was refreshing and writing down the part number because I figured this was a model across upgrade thing you had done. We are on the same page. Now I get to do the rather unorthodox jacking again. But not very high, just the wheel off the ground a couple inches.
Jeff
avatar
Huzzunga_Din

Number of posts : 40
Age : 61
Location : USA
Registration date : 2009-07-06

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Huzzunga_Din on Sat Aug 22, 2009 5:34 pm

Bushings on order at H.o.T. Not bad at about $2 each. I orered 6 so we have 2 to map off of. Need to find a dirt cheap pair of stock shocks. Off to eBay again.
Jeff
avatar
Huzzunga_Din

Number of posts : 40
Age : 61
Location : USA
Registration date : 2009-07-06

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  nodakbassmaster on Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:56 pm

the new bushings are poly and don't wear out near as quick as the old rubber style. I beleive they went to the bearings up top and the poly bushings on the bottom of the shock because the uppers were wearing out quicker than the lowers.... interested to see what you come up with... bounce

_________________
05 1800F/N
215/45/18 Toyo T1R
I walk on water

avatar
nodakbassmaster
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 1604
Age : 38
Location : Rapid City, SD
Registration date : 2007-12-15

Back to top Go down

Re: The new tires are on

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum